grain, contrast etc... in different scenes...

[Jambu]

Is there somebody who can remove my doubt: if you want to make a movie and you have to shoot many cartridges in different situation of light (indoor and outdoor shootings with artificial light, with natural light, different kind of weather when you are outdoor and so on...) when you go for editing how can you be shure the different scenes looks similar in grain, contrast ecc... i mean, i'd like not to go crazy and spending lot of money in doing corrections when transferring maybe there are some rules you can use for this when you shoot (maybe trying to use always the same f/stops?) any idea will be very appreciated!



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[eddie]

this is a problem. It is the job of the cinematographer to try and get the colour/look the same, and a colourist to match the colours when creating a print. But to be honest I shouldnt worry about it, if you let this worry stand in your way you will never do anything. A film with colour matching problems is a million times better than no film at all.
You could always try using Black and White, which is much more forgiving, or keep the number of locations down to a minimum. Or dont be too ambitious with the look of the film - just get the story told.
I try and do everything in black and white and just try and get enough light for an exposure. Then at least you can tell the story. When you can afford a pro cinematographer then let him/her worry about it.

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[eddie]

by the way, it doesnt really show up mid scene - a scene shot at the same time tends to have the same sort of colours, its when the light changes that you have problems - such as between different scenes.
Take a look at 'Being John Malchovitch' - they must have used many different types of film stock in that. One short scene especially stands out to me, was in a car, suddenly the film looked horrible, really grainy and dirty, when I mentioned this to a friend of mine, he hadnt noticed it. If you get involved in the story you wont notice these things, unless you are really concerned about colour matching.

In which case try and film everything quickly and efficiently, and at roughly the same time of day - etc. Use the same film stock and filters EVERYWHERE, use extra lights indoors and so on....

BUt yeah its an issue


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[Jambu]

You're perfectly all right... but i know i'll go on worring about it, i know myself...
Yo're perfectly all right the second time when you talk about the STORY, how said Samuel Fuller when they asked him: ?What makes a good movie?? and he answered ?The story?... ?And what make a good story?? Samuel ansewred again: ?the story?...

Hey! Do you know Nathan H. Schiff? I saw two of his movies (Long Island Cannibal Massacre and Weasel rip my flesh...) do you know if he shoot them with S8 or 16mm?

Thanks, ciao.

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[eddie]

I dont know.


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[Matt Pacini]

I learned the hard way on Lost Tribes.
Do not use different stocks.
I shot on K-40 & Ektachrome 160 & 125, and I had exactly this problem, grain & color are wildly different between K-40 & Ektachrome.
I suggest shooting all Kodachrome 40.
Always get the highest F-stop you can, if you want grain stucture to be similar (as well as sharpness).
So get as much light as possible at all times, although my extremely low-light scenes in my film, that wer shot on K-40 looks worlds better than the well-lit Ektachrome!

Matt Pacini

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[Alex]

Scene transition shots can mask grain differences from scene to scene.

If you end one scene with a close-up, then the way you start the next scene can either mask or draw attention to the grain and color differences of the film.

If you end one scene on a close-up, and start the next scene on a close-up, grain differences will probably be more noticeable.

Sometimes you want the grain to establish the mood of the scene!

So perhaps another question to ask, "Does my "look" (which has been created primarily by set, lighting, lens choice, actors wardrobe and film stock), complement the scene I am shooting".

If you follow that line of thinking through out your movie, the grain differences may indeed be lost because of the storyline.

-Alex



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[Jambu]

Thanks to all!
Yes, i'm going to shoot only with K40. As you say, Alex, transition shots can be very useful and i'm going to shoot some close ups and details in every location at the end of every cartridges to have more alternatives when editing.

ciao

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[ulrichsd]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jambu:
Long Island Cannibal Massacre and Weasel rip my flesh
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL

If there is a movie called "Weasel Rip My Flesh", *especially* if it is filmed in super8, I have to see it.

I don't know why, I just think this is funny and I'm still laughing. "Long Island Cannibal Massacre" isn't a bad title either.

Scott




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[Matt Pacini]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alex:
[B]
Scene transition shots can mask grain differences from scene to scene.

If you end one scene with a close-up, then the way you start the next scene can either mask or draw attention to the grain and color differences of the film.

(Matt Pacini responds):
Alex, have you actually done this or are you guessing?
Because I have done it both ways, and the look of the different film stocks is so shocking, that it is irrelevant what your transitions are.
If the stocks were close in grain & look, that would be one thing, but they aren't, and especially K-40, which looks completely different than any of the other S8 stocks, and has MUCH finer grain.
Again, anyone doubting this should get a copy of my film on ebay (sorry to plug, if I could afford it I would give them out for free), and watch it.
You will see completely different transitions between scenes, and similar ones: brightly lit outdoor scenes cutting to a dark, moody Temple Sacrifice scene inside of a cave, with deep blue light shining down on the cave walls, etc.
You can still see a huge shift in grain structure.
Yeah, stick to the K-40.
I've never yet heard anyone ever say they were sorry for having shot something on S8 K-40, have you?

Matt Pacini


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